when fluff is excessive

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Posted by Deb on October 14, 19103 at 10:04:52:

In Reply to: Re: My take on fluff posted by CJR on October 12, 19103 at 13:24:44:

Now I have never seen a fowl DQ for excessive fuff. but the consideration can be given if the fluff either creates the illusion of weight, or is excessive and prevents the feathers from laying in their natural position. Now you know I breed Orpingtons and this is an issue amongest us breeders. For the Orps we do not want the softness of the Cochin. Yet remember the feather structure of a Cochin differs with the down. For Orps we need fluff restricted to the under carrage with the natural positiion of the back feathers laying flat. the issue of fluff rises greatly in Orps. If you look at English Orps compared to US Orps you will see the vast differences. I am not overly concerned for in viewing the quality Dutch I do not see the natural position of the feathers effected, I do not see what we typically call an irregular break in tail. I wish I could explain it better, but I will suggest that if you want a true understanding study Orpingtons. We face this topic each time we enter the showroom. LOL What is excessive?


: :An added observation about that fluff that so many scorn without reason. Our Dutch males have most often been shown with VERY short back. This crowds the white fluff right back over the saddle, which is then narrow. The saddle should be wide (as well as long), and, if wide, we will have the slightly (said slightly!)longer, rounded back, which is to be sought. And those saddle feathers, which should have their golden orange contined, connected, right across the back (one side to the other, no break in color by the redgold of the back feathers going right to the tail base) Then, the white fluff is largely covered by those hackle feathers, that ride up the tail a little, and in top condition, will not be prominant, may even be hidden, and gives the best picture of the Dutch male heading for a U score!

: Some of the LB cockerels on the KlarenBeek album on my website, show this plainly. They had HIGH scores. My ideal--a U score LB cockerel, will be on the page later, with NoordShow pictures.


: You have two
: : things to consider when breeding, show quality and breed characteristics, sometimes they do not agree. but there is alotment for some things. At this point we call it a "break in Tail" and for SQ birds some breeds (cocks) it is alloted. As long as it is not excessive. An excessive break
: : in the tail of a male would appear as if feathers were missing, a division of sorts. Now in game breeds it is allowed. You will find a slight break in tail in many breeds that have long tails and abundant sickles. but it will be natural looking, not as if tail did not develope correctly.
: : Next point, reducing the feather
: : tracts by breeding fowl that lack in plumage abundance will only change the overall breed characteristics. Feather quality, width, abundence, structure are all heriditary. In the past the Dutch males that have been shown lack in these qualities but upon improvement and introduction of "true" examples , the best representations, will will slowly see the 'gamy' tail leave the showroom and hopefully the breeding pen also.
: : I can explain more if I was confusing LOL

: : Deb

: : : Remember, that the Dutch Bantam Light Brown Standard is the same as the Light Brown Leghorn. Different bird!! Different history and heritage. I have only recently taken a good look at the LB Leghorns at shows. Do not recall seeing the white fluff?? It wasn't what I was looking for. . .(it was the female LB.)

: : : The BBRed of the OEGB is not the same. Do you see it there? Maybe by crossing to OEGG BBRed one might reduce the white fluff on the Dutch. But what a can of worms that has been!!!! I must recall that the Dark LB birds that I had in the early days, from a cock that was a LB DutchxSpangled OEGB (my original birds in 1986), those birds had none, or almost no white fluff. That Mh gene was almost impossible to eliminate, after I learned about it. Had to eliminate all birds that carried it--ALL of them. It is not a Dutch variety.

: : : It is my understanding, that in Dutch Bantams, the white fluff COMES WITH the Patrijs variety, it is a given. Patrijs winners with high scores have it. It may not be as desired as a smooth color transition from hackle/saddle to tail, but is accepted. Will recheck the Standard in Holland--but later.

: : : Here, in the Light Brown, as in Leghorn, Standard, it is listed as a defect, and is written as: "excessive white fluff at base of the tail". Others have asked, "what is excessive?" At least it is recognized as a normal part of the Light Brown variety and pattern. I believe it is linked to LB, AS IN Dutch Bantams, other varieties do not have it to any degree, some varieties never have it!

: : : BLB have little or none, as a rule (certain lines) and perhaps by selective breeding LBxBLB (Great Birds), one can lessen the white fluff on LBs?? I have been working on BLB tails and cushion this year, and never have focused on fluff--as not important. Last of the hatches are nearly mailed out for others to work with, will repeat some next year. Am having some successes with the BLB tails. hackle and saddle. They come that way at shows in HOlland!

: : : This is just one opinion. Others? CJR

: :
: : : : Ok the white feathers that are just in front of the tail feathers. Not good with one US standard or am I wrong? From all the pics I have seen the good tailed Cock birds had a lot of it. I have noticed that the more my young cockerels had the better there tails were. And have never had any pullets with much at all.But the pullets that had the big bunched up sickle feathers have wound up with the best tails. Does this have anything to do with the tail thing? Just curious. Thank you.

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