Re: CLBs as bred in Holland/England/Germany


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Posted by CJR on June 27, 19103 at 12:18:28:

In Reply to: CLB posted by Rog on June 26, 19103 at 02:16:13:

:


The statements about Standards and Judging of Dutch in The Netherlands (lacing, vermiculation---- flitter is something different than described here) are questionable.
I would not attempt to answer for the judges and breeders in The Netherlands. CJR

CLB Standard
: IP: 205.188.208.140
: Posted on June 26, 2003 at 00:20:29 AM by Rog

: I just have one question. What the heck is wrong with using the Holland standard for the CLB. Let each person use there own idea of what it should be. But breed to the Holland standard. This is crap. A few want to rule. Know this will deleted quick. Night. Posted this on the other Dutch site. AnswerRe(1): CLB Standard
: IP: 12.151.204.52
: Posted on June 26, 2003 at 01:10:02 AM by Dusty Miller

: Roger,
: The translation of the Holland Standard was in a Newsletter when this subject of standardization first started. The format is considerably different from the one we use in the U.S., so we mostly just put the same information into the proper format. The only thing that was a real problem was the female back color. In Holland and England, it is described as GRAYISH YELLOW. Not Creamy gray as is being chosen by some.
: As noted in the letter from the APA Committee, the color of the birds does not differ much from area to area, just the wording used to describe the color. So the folks in Holland look at this female and they call the color GRAYISH YELLOW, but when we look at the same color, we see Creamy grayish brown.
: I remember from grade school the primary color chart, when you mix gray (black & white) with yellow, you get some shade of brown. The other breeding practice in Holland that was a problem was the markings on the female back. All wild type female patterns in the U.S. call for a solid color with stipples and calls for no lacing or vermiculation. In Holland they are much more accepting of this "flitter" as they call the lacing, also seem to accept more shafting and vermiculation than fine stipples. The only YELLOW on the female backs from Holland was more or less the lacing, which in the U.S. should not be there, so when trying to refine the female backs to U.S. standards, the lacing (therefore the yellow) has to go. I remember the first CLB females were terribly rough on their backs with the lacing, shafting and vermiculation. We are only now getting some improvement on the markings, getting to fine stippling with no lacing.
: Many of us have worked for years to improve the female back markings, I seem to remember showing you those improper markings when you visited me a couple of years ago.
: I am all for letting all breeders interrupt the standard. The female back color is the only part that does not totally agree with the Holland Standard on color. Well one small exception, they use the word "Straw Yellow" to describe the male hackle, and in the U.S. "straw" is thought to be a very light shade, so we used words to describe the same bird in Holland, that would have the same meaning.
: In effect that is what the female is basically, different words to describe the same color. I doubt that anyone would really want to call the female GRAYISH YELLOW. We are not trying to change the color of the birds, just the words used to describe the same color. Check out the pics on several locations on the Net, I think the birds look amazingly the same as ours, we aren't trying to change that.
: Roger, I don't know if your message will be deleted or not, your language is not really good. Couldn't you try to be a bit nicer and a bit more proper. A little positive attitude would also be good, please try to help the process, not just inflame it.
: Dusty Thats my answer. And my reply.
: Re(2): CLB Standard
: IP: 205.188.208.9
: Posted on June 26, 2003 at 01:44:43 AM by Rog

: Hey Dusty Thanks for the reply. #1 Yes I think the Holland standard should be used. Maybe we need somebody who speeks both Dutch and English to interperate the Holland standard. They are around. My problem is that the club just seems to have a few folk`s that know it all. Not. And I for sure do not. My point is , there are lot`s of new people out there that have new ideas. And there are lot`s of old breeders that have good True Holland type Dutch. And they are the ones that are trying to keep the Dutch type pure. I do not have a problem with creating a new color. I do have a problem with showing a new color when it is not a Dutch type bird. Rog Well guess I got in trouble again.




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