Posted by CJR on February 23, 19103 at 13:46:24:
In Reply to: CLB Bantams? posted by Tiffsdutch on February 22, 19103 at 13:00:03:
Tiffsdutch, Some time ago, I tried to start a discussion about spurs (color, shape, etc). Birds that I got from Holland had lighter colored spurs, some opaque. Some "mature"and grow slowly, and a 3 year old cock will still not have spurs less than two inches long. The ones I like best (and I keep this line of birds) are opaques, and rounded ends--never a point. Somehow, the birds that had black spurs(LB birds), pointed and very sharp, indicated some mixed breed, but this may or may not be true. Since I seldom can show my birds (and would not bring a bird home from a show, if I did) I am not concerened about using a Resco Dog Nail nippers, to round off the ends of any pointed spurs. Right now, I have no cockerels with pointed spurs. When they are older, they may not be as benign.
Spur design is interesting, never discussed, and certainly inherited, as surely as plumage quality. But like combs, it isn't as important as is body type, length of leg-and the rounded back, angle of back and tail, length and texture of sickles and tail feathers, length of hackle and saddle, length and carriage of neck and fullness of breast. Those are the hallmarks of a great Dutch, and if you get them all right on one bird--you may have a winner for show and breeding.
What comes first, what is the FIRST Dutch characteristic to breed for?? TAIL!! A Dutch without a fairly LONG, proper angle, (most are carried pretty high in birds that I see pictures of--and at shows), naturally soft end to the shaft of the sickles, which will curve completely around the WIDE tail feathers, which fan from top to bottom --is DUTCH! There will be up to 6-8 soft, curved, lesser sickles. This is the glamour male, of Holland--and is just a matter of selecting best birds, never breeding hard feathered, stiff, erect, short sickle-feathered males.
Female tails are equally important in breeding exhibition Dutch. Tail should be quite long (will be, as a 6 weeks old chick,) and can be selected that early, if a good one! Then by 9-12 weeks, a promising pullet will have a CUSHION that is MORE than half way to the end of the tail feathers. The APA/ABA judges reserve the term "cushion" to soft feathered breed such as the Cochin, but the Dutch Bantam female should have a CUSHION! And will be soft, and fill in a back that is longer than you think, and aids the proper angle of the tail! One of the first thing an English or Dutch judge does, is to hold the female upright, then with one hand, pull the tail down, which shows immediately the length and fullness of the CUSHION. Glamour Dutch of Holland are no accident. We have the genes, but not the patience to learn about selecting breeding birds. Only a few that are exhibited in the U.S. and that win, are birds that would get a passing Score in Holland. Unless asked (and I am not, very often) I do not tell exhibitors if their birds are not very good Dutch Bantams, that is not my right. But since the forum seems now open to questions, I can speak out. I do not single out anyones birds.
But I will say that at a Tucson, AZ Show, about 5 years ago, well over 100 Dutch exhibited, there was NOT ONE bird I would take home! NOT ONE. And this is true of several other shows I have attended. AT most shows, there are sesveral that could be useful. NOW, at more shows each year, there are some birds exhibited, that are real Dutch quality, and sadly, they are not always recognized by judges who have not before seen correct Dutch, but usually, a judge will recognize these birds, if he looks at his Standard. (but not for color--that is as erratic as type at most Dutch Shows). We are seeing more 1/2-correct Dutch at shows now, but still few correct type and colored Dutch. Females should not look just like OEGB females, although there is some resemblence, but very little with the best Dutch females. Some pictures of winning females seen recently, could be placed over OEGB females--- and do some OEGB breeders love to add that longer tail of the female, curved sickle of the males,???? But they do not get the stature of a Dutch, the neck shape and the front of a Dutch!
After you are getting offspring with the most important features, then, for exhibition birds, go for even, nice 5 point combs (no double points for exhibition, if possible), and for opaque rounded end spurs. The female is VERY important in comb shape of the male. Smaller is better and the female needs to have the 5 neat points to her small comb--and most of her sons and daughters will have best combs. Several generations of breeding only females with best combs, will lead to a breeding flock that produces fewer odd or poorer combs (there will always be comb variations, simply very few).
Leg length is FIRST. Never breed a long legged Dutch, EVER. You will get a lot of unwanted baggage along with the long legs. I have never had a really great bird with long legs--nice maybe, but never great. They make lovely pets, but never a breeding or exhibition Dutch.
If I can find the material soon, I will put up some information about the CLB female Dutch. There is nothing that has not been available from the Club, previously, but newer members have not seen it. There is some on the COOP "Articles" section that have been there for years.
Right now, any hen or pullet with a "light" colored hackle is being shown as a CLB female. Winning may be far more important than breeding, with our Dutch Bantams. But some of us are "breeders" and showing and winning is the least important, breeding a better and more correct Dutch Bantam is foremost--and numbers of birds is unimportant. One good one is worth 400 poor ones. I am and always have been, a Dutch Bantam breeder. I try to place every bird
to meet the needs of the purchaser. A waiting list exists, but I must know exactly what the purchaser wants--and wait until I have a bird or birds closest to that (as far as I can predict) before a bird is sold and mailed. For instance, I do not sell just CLBs (none now, as I gave or sold all my years of CLB breeding, except some rehatches from LB Swavers and I will later have some "best" CLBs again. Anyone can do it with "selection" and Patience, the genes are there.
Sorry that my photo provider has a problem with the roll that has 8 pictures that Hans Schippers sent to me, of CLBs on it. I can send thumbnails of just one picture at a time, but it will not enlarge, nor send the slide show of all 8. They said perhaps after a wait, it would perform correctly, but still two days later, it will not. Maybe tommorrow, they will fix it. Meantime, I can send you pictures of my only CLBs--Swavers, bred from LBs carrying the CLB genes. They are not correct color, but in one or two more generations, I will select the offspring that will give it back again! The TYPE of the females is excellent! Patience is the name of Poultry Husbandry--a "quick fix" will result in hatching dozens of poor birds--and who gets them? Where do they go?
Let's talk--give and take--I do not know it all, but I have collected some good information over the past 17 years with Dutch, which I have always been glad to share I do not spread it around unless asked for it. I am still learning every day--you all contribute to that learning, and am trying to do so, for as long as I breed Dutch! CJR
: I have been reading about the CLB color and im really starting to like the color. So if I was to by what color would the females really have to be to show?
: And I need information on cutting the spurs on show rosters but still be able to show them?
: Thank you,
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